Real Garage: US Efficiency Edition

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 01/31/2017 at 17:48 • Filed to: Dream Garage

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I still think the Infiniti Q50 Hybrid and Q70 Hybrid sound awesome on paper. The niche we need the most!

We are doing a three vehicle garage this evening! The theme is fuel efficiency, however I have a theory in which any vehicle rated at least 25 mpg combined is pretty much immune to gas prices rising again in the US. So let’s run with that!

All three vehicles must be rated at a minimum of 25 mpg combined .

One vehicle must be a diesel .

You are only allowed to have one diesel .

Not too harsh a challenge honestly. Yes it’s realistic for fun and efficient to exist together, kin! So have a look around, make sure it’s legal to own the vehicle in your market and as always, enjoy yo’selves!

*I suggest using !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! if you want to weigh your options.

* Oppos outside the US will need to use your own market ratings, so you’ll be working off 11.5 liters per 100 kilometers or whatever disgusting math and science backed metric ya’ll weirdos use.

TheHondaBro > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 17:52

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Nuts to the diesel. Three NSXs.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 17:56

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BMW i8 (76 combined MPGe, 28 combined on gas alone).

Jaguar XF 20d (35 combined).

ND Miata (29 combined).

DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 17:56

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Integra Type-R

2017 Honda Civic (Sedan or Hatchback)

Pre-Diesel gate VW TDI. I don’t think there’s any mainstream diesel cars in the US besides trucks, which don’t get 25 mpg.

Wobbles the Mind > TheHondaBro 01/31/2017 at 17:58

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You just made me remember that 6.0L V12 TDI Audi R8 we will never have.

Wobbles the Mind > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 01/31/2017 at 18:00

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Thank you for picking a diesel Jaaag! I was going to hint at them because they are a stupid good deal but didn’t want to ruin the fun!

djmt1 > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:01

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Jaguar XF Sportbrake TDV6. 55 MPG

Caterham 420S. 33 MPG

Ariel Nomad. 25 MPG

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:09

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Mclaren P1. 28 combined.

Jaguar F-Pace Diesel Sport. 29 combined.

Mazda Miata. 30 Combined.

So a fleet average of 29 mpg and most bases covered in terms of vehicle wants/needs.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:23

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428i GranCoupe - 27 combined

X5 xDrive40e - 56 combined MPG-e

Cooper S Hardtop - 27 combined

Wobbles the Mind > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 01/31/2017 at 18:28

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No way does the P1 get over 20 mpg combined! What did you look up?

Wobbles the Mind > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/31/2017 at 18:29

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Family Ties!

Wobbles the Mind > DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time 01/31/2017 at 18:30

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Integra Type-R seems to answer more questions than Miata lately. Might be the new answer.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:30

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http://jalopnik.com/mclaren-p1-0-62-mph-in-2-8-seconds-28-mpg-omg-omg-1449011588

Also, it has a full electric mode so it’s basically as good as a Tesla.

Wobbles the Mind > djmt1 01/31/2017 at 18:30

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Now that’s a cut of jib I can sail behind!

Otto-the-Croatian-'Whoops my Volvo is a sedan' > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:35

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Suzuki Samurai 4WD, 25 MPG

Caddy 4cyl (I don’t even care), 25 MPG

Caterham 160, 36MPG

Die-Trying > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:43

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28 mpg........

MLGCarGuy > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:47

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Porsche 918 Spyder - 67 MPG-e

Chevy Colorado ZR2 Diesel - exactly 25 MPG

Honda Accord Touring - 26 MPG

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:52

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DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 18:58

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I-ntegra

N-umeriously

T-he

E-xponentially

G-rowing

R-ight

A-nswer

bhtooefr > Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap 01/31/2017 at 19:04

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Stop using the EU cycle. It’s bad, and you should feel bad.

http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35652

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > bhtooefr 01/31/2017 at 19:06

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Hey man. Don’t kill my vibe.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/31/2017 at 19:12

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With the V8?

Die-Trying > Die-Trying 01/31/2017 at 19:13

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1969 chevy nova 250 inline 6

1981 luv truck

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/31/2017 at 20:08

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sadly thats just a plain beetle. i am looking for around 10-12 TOPS out of the 305 bug.......

Wobbles the Mind > DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time 01/31/2017 at 20:17

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Really rolls off the tongue like a school bus off the line!

bhtooefr > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 20:18

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The beigest of beige dream garages... with some variety in bodystyles and powertrains.

1986 Toyota Camry Turbo Diesel Liftback, 26/33/ 29 MPG combined. (The photo probably isn’t a diesel.)

1987 Toyota Camry Wagon, 2.0 manual, 23/31/ 26 MPG combined. (I’d really like to have a V6 wagon somewhere in here, but it ain’t happening, not with the 25 MPG limit (the only Camry V6s that hit 25 were 2013-2016, and the Venza didn’t hit that). And, I’ve decided that the body style menagerie is more important than getting a V6 in here.)

2017 Toyota Camry SE Hybrid, 40/37/ 38 MPG combined. (The 2018 should be damn close to 50 combined...)

...OK, I’m just fucking with you all. This was a shitpost.

Wobbles the Mind > bhtooefr 01/31/2017 at 20:25

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Ah yeah, beige against the machine! Yeah, I’m ready for a revolution, man!!! Let’s make some flyers, I have some aggressive templates ready to go!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/31/2017 at 20:29

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305? A maligned engine, though Engine Masters on MotorTrend On Demand got something like 600 HP out of a 305, but only for a dyno run.

bhtooefr > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 21:09

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Now, for the real submission, what I’d almost actually want in an actual three car garage from what’s available in the market... and the 25 MPG and one diesel requirement only screws me up a little, actually.

The diesel: 1985 Toyota Truck Turbo Diesel, manual, 2WD, 26/27/ 26 MPG combined. But, I’m cheating. I’m cheating so goddamn hard on this one.

What this boils down to is, I want a camper of some kind, and I think I do want the capability to really boondock (that means a real goddamn bathroom, none of this porta-potty shit, and it needs a stand-up shower). So, truck bed campers are insufficient (there is apparently one for compact trucks that “can” boondock, but ehhhhh, and it’s a sit-down shower). Minivan conversions won’t cut it, although full-size van conversions can, even as a class B (there’s some interesting ProMaster floorplans, actually)... but there’s not a single full-size diesel van that’s currently rated at 25 MPG (in fact, all of the current ones are heavy duty, and therefore exempt from rating). The Vixen 21TD is interesting, but it’s rated at 15/16/ 16 , so that won’t work. What we really need is a Class C based on a compact pickup. I’d rather use a modern Colorado/Canyon and get 22/30/ 25 with actual power, but compact pickup-based Class Cs aren’t a thing any more - why would they be, when you can do a van-based Class C and have better space utilization?

So, here’s the cheat... it’s built on a 1985 Toyota Dolphin Model 600 (the rear bath model, and the pic probably is not of a Model 600):

And, here’s the floorplan from the 1984 brochure:

Now, those aren’t available with diesels, but that’s nothing that a powertrain swap can’t pull off. And, if this were made today, as it’s an upfitter conversion, it actually doesn’t fall afoul of EPA regulations, I don’t think. And, I’d have to duck constantly when walking in it, due to the ceiling height being about 1-2" too low... but whatever.

Amusing that I cheated with the diesel, really. In reality, I’d probably use a Class B based on... probably the ProMaster, I guess, as that’s the one with the best floorplan flexibility (and, the damn thing has enough room for a hybrid battery, and maybe they could drop the Pacifica Hybrid powertrain in it? That’d be ideal for an RV, especially if the hybrid powertrain can act as a generator.)

The daily driver: Aargh, this one’s hard, actually, because nothing quite like what I want is out. The closest approximation is the Prius Prime, though, so let’s go with that, even though its packaging annoys the fuck out of me. I like how the Liftback drives, so it’s got that going for it.

2017 Toyota Prius Prime Plus (yep, I’ve even figured out the trim level), 145/121/ 133 MPGe charge depleting for 25 miles, 55/53/ 54 MPG charge sustaining:

The hauler: So, it’s really between this and a compact pickup... and this has better aerodynamics, it’s nicer , and it’s a PHEV itself. Honestly, I think I’d rather do this and give up the sports car from the garage (right now, my garage consists of a Prius Liftback and a NB Miata).

2017 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid Premium, 89/78/ 84 MPGe charge depleting for 33 miles, 32/33/ 32 MPGe charge sustaining.

There is another way I’d do this in reality, however, if I decided that having a shower was unnecessary. In that case, I’d ditch the cheaty Toyota diesel camper, build a removable camper unit designed to slide into the back of the Pacifica (they exist in Europe for other vans), and then break the rules of the whole goddamn thing and get a Tesla Roadster 2.5, instead of a diesel, at 124/112/ 119 MPGe (although that’s on an outdated standard, and I can’t find the Roadster in the EPA database). Alternately, the Pacifica might just get replaced by the Roadster 2.5 itself in that lineup, and that would be rules compliant (if the Prime had better packaging, there wouldn’t be a need for a hauler). Neither would get driven all that much, TBH...

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/31/2017 at 21:12

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well, its not exactly a 305. its a 302 thats bored 30 over. so its 305.9-something. its a 3 inch stroke 4 inch bore engine. makes almost no low rpm torque, but makes tons of upper rpm power. super chevy mag did a 302 build-up, and managed 519 na horses @ 7400 rpm. the one i have put together is basically a 69 spec engine, so MAYBE, 340, real world, can actually put your hands on, horses, TOPS. should still be lots of fun.........

Wobbles the Mind > bhtooefr 01/31/2017 at 21:33

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This is exactly why I love doing these, I always discover interesting gaps and that camper one would have never popped up to me until I was in the market!

I do like the Prius Prime a ton though the drastic change in interior between that and the Prius bugs me. I’m really hoping Hyundai-Kia do better with their eletrified powertrains than their gasoline ones because the efficiency is awful across everything and is off pace substantially with the market. The hybrids have been far better though. If they knock out what they are saying with the Ioniq Plug-in then a Niro PHEV may get 25 miles on a charge in its absolute base end (the current Niro drops off a cliff with each trim).

Personally for my niche, I’m banking on the Kia Stinger and Genesis G70 making hybrid variants to sit above the base 2.0T at around $37,500. There is a wide opening in that space, but I know I won’t see a PHEV variant fit there.

bhtooefr > Wobbles the Mind 01/31/2017 at 21:54

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Worth noting that, up front, the Prime Plus has the same interior as a regular Liftback (it’s also the only way to get cloth, and I’m not a fan of leather). The back seat being different is apparently due to the chassis approaching weight limits with the battery - they didn’t want five adults sitting in it. And, the cargo area is... pure stupidity and non-sensical cost-cutting.

I found the Ioniqs I sat in at the Detroit Auto Show to have kinda mediocre interior finish, but if it works, it works. The packaging in the PHEV is excellent - the A3 e-tron is the only other PHEV that’s packaged that well that I’ve seen. However... reviews in Europe, where the Ioniq Hybrid is actually available, aren’t pretty on the efficiency or performance fronts, compared to the Prius.

One example, Auto Express getting 57.8 mpUKg for the Prius, 47.9 mpUKg for the Ioniq: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyundai/ioniq/97628/hyundai-ioniq-vs-toyota-prius

They’re equally thermally efficient at peak (40%), but the DCT can’t keep the engine on its most efficient point as well as the power split device can. And, although there’s added efficiency from keeping the motor/generator closer to optimum RPM, your primary energy source is the engine, not the motor/generator, so having it be less efficient makes the whole car less efficient. And, similarly, even though it’s more powerful, if it spends more time away from the power peak such that less power’s actually being generated, it’ll be slower.

As far as the camper niche, in reality, the Pacifica with a slide-in camping unit would probably work quite fine, especially if that camping unit can get the power it needs from the vehicle electrical system. (Really, the vehicle’s HVAC system can handle heating and cooling efficiently enough, so that leaves cooking and water needs. I actually really am liking the packaging of that Hijet-based camper I posted the other day, and an induction cooktop would be enough, and if you could power it off of the traction pack without going through the 12 volt system...)

This is an example of a much smaller slide-in unit for small vans:

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/31/2017 at 22:43

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I should think that 300+ horsepower ought to be sufficient to move a Volkswagen Bug around in a spirited manner.

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/31/2017 at 22:58

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YES, it should be more than spirited. i had planned on building the engine with not much torque. keeps it from spinning the tires so hard on launch. it also has a 4 link rear end to help plant the rear tires..........

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/31/2017 at 23:00

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And there’s the AWD puzzlement... I never heard of desiging a car precisely so that it would not spin tires, but I’m barely a novice.

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/31/2017 at 23:16

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spinning, while it might in fact LOOK impressive, is failing to harness the work of the engine. getting the suspension and driveline to hook, means you have left while the guy next to you hasnt. fun stuff trying to figure out how to make it all work.

ive been in some sketchy trucks, that sure seem impressive, what with all the tirespin and smoke taking off. but the feeling, when you mash the gas, and dump the clutch in something that can flat out hook, and it pins you to the seat as it leaves straight as an arrow without doing any kind of dramatics. just intoxicating..........

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/31/2017 at 23:26

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I’m sure it is. There’s also much less skill necessary to burn rubber when you’re not going anywhere. I had a chance to drive a guy’s Tesla P85+ a few months back and I was thinking, this could be dangerous. He had no idea about something called “traction control,” nor that it could be turned off. So we figured that one out together and I was thinking, this could be dangerous .

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/31/2017 at 23:34

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traction control has always been the #1 job of “righty”......... how was the tesla adventure? you manage to keep it sideways?...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 01/31/2017 at 23:45

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Never driven a care before with 0-60 in under 4 seconds. It was a cool car; I wouldn’t mind having one. But I’d settle for 350 carbon-powered horses.

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/31/2017 at 23:53

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that instantaneous go, thats what i am on after. just from a carbon powered variant, with an awesome soundtrack, and poor gas mileage........

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 02/01/2017 at 00:05

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Soundtrack. I like.

TheHondaBro > DC3 LS, will be perpetually replacing cars until the end of time 02/01/2017 at 00:37

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Integra:
Now
The
Exceptionally,
Gregariously
Right
Answer

Amoore100 > Wobbles the Mind 03/05/2017 at 00:21

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My diesel will also be hybrid:

V60 D6 Twin Engine, 0-60 in 6.1, apparently 38 mpg combined.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Lotus Elan, 28 mpg apparently (when it runs), can be towed by the V60

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Isuzu Piazza: Italian Style, Japanese engineering, 27 mpg combined